Karyn McRae & Helen Lynch are two of my favourite humans! We’ve known each other in business for nearly 20 years and not only are they razor smart and absolute experts in design, but they’re also hilarious and so kind.

Starting their business after attending university together, they’ve had a relationship spanning 3 decades! After building a successful Interior architecture firm, they moved into online courses in 2021 launching “Renovation Simplified” and launched their podcast, Two Gins In - A Designers Perspective. They’re sought after speakers and in today’s podcast episode they’re sharing how they went from being local experts, to nationwide success.

Karyn McRae and Helen Lynch are the visionary founders of McRae + Lynch Design, a leading interior design firm based in southern Sydney, Australia. With over 15 years of experience, Karyn’s journey began with a focus on architectural drafting, evolving into a successful career in interior design. Helen complements this with her expertise in interior design and drafting, known for her attention to detail and client-focused approach. Together, they blend their skills, creativity, and dedication to create stunning, customized spaces that reflect their clients' unique styles.

 

Find Karyn & Helen:

Website here

Instagram here

 

Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hi, friends. Welcome to another episode of her Empire Builder podcast. Today is actually one of my favorite member interviews that I have ever done because it is with one of my longest standing members and also good friends. And so they are partners. We've got Kara McRae and Helen lynch joining us today. And because they have worked together for three decades, and because we know each other very, very well, it's a lively conversation. There's a few times where we're talking over the top of each other, but it's very, very highly entertaining, as only Karen and Helen could be. So Karen and Helen are two of my favorite humans.

Tina Tower [00:00:40]:
We have known each other in business for nearly 20 years. So we first met, I started my business in 2004 in the Shire, which is in Sydney's south, and that is also where Karen and Helen are from. And we started a business networking event. Like, we started going to that together and got to know each other. But I had met Karen before, so my first business was reach education center, which was an educational toy store, birthday party place, and tutoring center. And when I started that, and I had birthday parties there, her son actually came to there and had his birthday party. So Karen has been supporting me for a very, very long time, and we've known each other for a really long time. They are the best of the best in terms of what they do with their interior architecture firm.

Tina Tower [00:01:35]:
And then when I started in this wonderful world of online business, they were one of the first people to sign up to my program. So I am very grateful to them and the way we've got to work with each other. But also, you know, as much as I am, I'm really glad that they've taken all of the action in it, because especially in the last three years, I have seen the most incredible growth trajectory where the Karen and Helen that I knew ten years ago would not have even dreamed of doing the stuff that they're putting themselves forward for now. Not that they have ever been shy. You'd never associate them with that. But I think they were always really comfortable in being really awesome, like, the best in their local area. And then they started, like, setting their sights on something bigger and really going, you know, now their kids are starting to grow up. What else can they do? And how far can they go? And what is the potential that they can actually reach? And they've taken so many incredible boldenhouse and scary actions, and it has really started to pay off tenfold.

Tina Tower [00:02:43]:
So you'll love this episode if you're like, what will happen if I get myself out of my comfort zone and start pushing when I've always done what I've always done kind of thing, but you're feeling like you want to really rev it up a little bit. That's what this episode is all about. So a little bit about Karen and Helen starting their business after attending university together. They've had a relationship spanning three decades. After building a successful interior architecture firm, they moved into online courses in 2021, launching renovation simplified, and have launched their podcast, two gins. In a designer's perspective, they are also sought after speakers, and in today's episode, they're sharing how they went from local experts to a nationwide success. And they're sharing how they're about to go like they're about to film a tv show. It's incredible.

Tina Tower [00:03:35]:
Anyway, Karen and Helen are the visionary founders of McCrae and Lynch Design, a leading interior design firm based in southern Sydney, Australia. With over 15 years of experience, Karen's journey began with a focus on architectural drafting evolving into a successful career in interior design. Helen complements this with her expertise in interior design and drafting, and known for her attention to detail and client focused approach. Together, they blend their skills, creativity and dedication to creating stunning, customized spaces that reflect their clients unique styles. And they're two of the funniest women that I know with the kindest, most beautiful hearts. They're so helpful to every one of our members. They will help out another fellow sister whenever they can and they're just, they're just a joy to be around. I hope you're going to love this episode and I hope it inspires you to also get out of your comfort zone and really go for your dreams.

Tina Tower [00:04:31]:
Hello and welcome to her Empire Builder show. I'm your business strategist and host, Tina Tower, and I am so happy you are here. My goal with this show is to bring you the inspirational and informative conversations with interesting humans as well as the tools, tips and resources to help you build your online business. Since starting my first business at 20, I have built and sold four times. And in 2018, while traveling around the world with my family for a year, I tripped and fell into this wonderful world of online courses and I instantly fell in love. I'm a million dollar course creator, a world traveler, best selling author, a mummer of two man children, and a lucky wife. There's no playing small here. It's your time to grow to run a highly profitable business that makes you wildly wealthy while you positively impact your clients and the world around you and have the life you've always dreamed of.

Tina Tower [00:05:29]:
Let's get it. Karen and Helen, welcome to her Empire builder show.

Main Episode

Karyn & Helen [00:05:35]:
Thank you, Tina. We're so excited to be here. Always fun chatting to you.

Tina Tower [00:05:40]:
So, I mean, we've been chatting for, like, two decades now. We met for the first time in, it was at rendezvous, right? Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:05:50]:
Yeah. Oh, gosh, that's a long time.

Karyn & Helen [00:05:54]:
I met you before that because we had Corbin's third birthday party at the toy store where we built volcanoes. Yes.

Tina Tower [00:06:02]:
Yes, we did.

Karyn & Helen [00:06:02]:
I forgot about that.

Tina Tower [00:06:03]:
So that is. So that would have been. Yeah. About how old is he now?

Karyn & Helen [00:06:08]:
23. So 20 years.

Karyn & Helen [00:06:12]:
Old.

Tina Tower [00:06:13]:
And I love this because, I mean, I've seen you go through so many different business iterations. You've seen me go through so many different situations, and it's been fun getting to grow up together. But we were talking a little bit about this before we hit record. I feel like you've grown your business at a really steady pace over the last. You've been 25 years in business.

Karyn & Helen [00:06:36]:
Oh, easily, yes.

Tina Tower [00:06:37]:
Yeah. So over that stage, but the last, like, three, I want to say you have, like, gone on a massive trajectory.

Karyn & Helen [00:06:45]:
Yes, we have.

Tina Tower [00:06:47]:
So give us a little bit of an overview, first, of how you started working together, because I do think in terms of partnerships, there's not many examples of good partnerships that make it through the ages. I mean, first of all, the percentage of businesses that last three years is so slim. The percentages of partnerships that last three years is nearly non existent. And you've been going nearly three decades.

Karyn & Helen [00:07:11]:
We have, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:07:12]:
Tell everybody how that first came about.

Karyn & Helen [00:07:14]:
You can tell the story.

Karyn & Helen [00:07:15]:
Karen's favorite story is our love at first sight. Like a unique. Yeah. So we started together. We met studying interior design, and our very first day there, Karen, who's always on time, turned up late, and we were in, like, a little demountable classroom thing. And I think I was in the back corner somewhere, and I saw her come in and trying to find a seat, and I've just, without really thinking too much of it, said, oh, over here, there's a seat. So she came over, and that's it. From then on, we just clicked.

Karyn & Helen [00:07:49]:
And I guess at uni, we would do assignments together. If there was any assignments that we had to collaborate, we just, I think, clicked. We had similar values, similar ideas, and just worked really well together. So by the time we finished our three years full time study, we got to know each other pretty well and thought, okay, well, why not make something of it? So that's the beginning.

Tina Tower [00:08:16]:
And did you go straight from uni into business? Together?

Karyn & Helen [00:08:19]:
No, not really. We. We kind of started up our business, which was literally just a business card, and that was it. Nothing else.

Tina Tower [00:08:28]:
I miss the days where you started a business and you made a nice, fancy business card, and you felt like you were in business.

Karyn & Helen [00:08:35]:
And I was pregnant. I fell pregnant at the end of the last year. So Karen went off and worked for a couple of architects, and on the odd occasion, like, we'd get together and do little private jobs, projects together. So we've always been working together. There was probably about two years in amongst that when we were both full on with our kids, like, babies in the middle of all that, wherever it kind of fell by the wayside. But it was. It's weird because we'd. At some point, Karen would ring me and go, oh, there's this project, whatever.

Karyn & Helen [00:09:08]:
Do you want to, like, join me? And I go, yeah, why not? And then it all just picked up again. It's like that. It was like a blink, and then we're back to normal. And I think we've kind of carried on that way throughout our children's development and change. You know, your change in. Not in lifestyle, but, you know, life changes.

Karyn & Helen [00:09:27]:
We just kind of built around family, and I think that's why we clicked. And we have such good energy between us because we have similar family values, and I think it wouldn't have gone so well if one was. You know, it's not about the family and the children, and I'm all career driven. I think that's why it's worked really well, because it's. It's always been about family first. What's so much in the last year.

Tina Tower [00:09:48]:
That'S why you've accelerated a lot in the last few years, is getting independent and turning into adults, and you're going, okay, I've got this little bit of a void now.

Karyn & Helen [00:10:01]:
Yeah, very much so. And I think, you know, lots of friends look at us and think, why you two should be slowing down like you're in your fifties. And I think, who says we have to? Like, we've done the family thing, built the business around family, and, you know, gone on that roller coaster journey, and it's just. It's our time now. And particularly in these last three years, it's definitely our time.

Tina Tower [00:10:22]:
Yeah. Okay, so that's the part I want to talk about, because you. You went pretty slow and steady, and then when I started her empire builder, when did we start 2020? And we were supposed to go to Palm Springs together to kick it off. And then Covid hit, but started that, and it took you a hot minute to get into the online. You were like, I think we want to do this, but I think it took. Did it take until around 2021 before you did your first thing online?

Karyn & Helen [00:10:52]:
Correct.

Tina Tower [00:10:53]:
And so I want to go there to start off with, because that's for a lot of people when they're getting started, especially when they're so established in traditional business, it can be a hard to, like, pivot. Good. And we know this part, should we put time and energy over here? That's not going to pay us yet and not going to, you know, bring us everything yet. Is it going to be worth it in there? So how did you, how did you work out that timing and what made you want to go into the online space?

Karyn & Helen [00:11:23]:
Definitely it's hard to give up a service based business. As you said, we're good at what we do, and it's hard to make that transition across. We're very lucky that we have one another. So I guess it will be. I'll be honest, it would be hard to make that transition on your own. It's the best thing we've done. And I took a real. It was a decision made that, you know, Helen would maintain a lot of the drafting and that I would jump into the online world.

Karyn & Helen [00:11:49]:
And of course, she's definitely, most definitely involved. It's just. It's believing. It's. I guess we were kind of a little bit scared to. To take that leap and really take it on.

Karyn & Helen [00:11:59]:
But it's not even just the scary stuff is putting your face out there and doing all that stuff. I mean, we can get past that. That's at the end of the day. At the time, it seemed really difficult, but once you've done a couple, you go, okay, I don't know what I was worried about, but I think for us, that transition was our hardest part, because we just couldn't afford to not bring any money in. And to go and focus on online things is. It does take a. It's like we've always said, it's like a whole other business. It's completely separate.

Karyn & Helen [00:12:30]:
And to maintain the projects and our job is very hands on. We do everything even to outsource. We found it really difficult because our time was then taken up by trying to go through all the processes and all that sort of stuff. But we basically got a leg up during COVID because the business pretty much slowed down, and we both made the decision well, okay, that's the perfect opportunity for us to actually then focus on that side. And that was really the beginning of it. We dabbled in bits and pieces and tried to get it done, and it was really difficult. And then once we had that time to focus, it kick started us, and then that was it. Yep, we want to do this.

Karyn & Helen [00:13:13]:
So then it was a matter of juggling out hands on bricks and mortar business and the online side of it, and as you know.

Karyn & Helen [00:13:22]:
But it took a life of its own then.

Karyn & Helen [00:13:24]:
It did. And there are so many more elements to it than we were even aware of when we first started, that perhaps if we had have known, maybe we.

Tina Tower [00:13:34]:
Might have started, like, what?

Karyn & Helen [00:13:37]:
Well, all gone. Oh, hang on. This is all too much.

Tina Tower [00:13:41]:
It is overwhelming. I mean, we did. I had a coaching call with someone this morning, and I was. I was running through their momentum path. Like, everything they got to do from, like, absolute scratch to launching in four months time was their goal. And I went over it just like, okay, we've got to do this, this, this, and this. And in my mind, it's all very simple. She's like, you could just the overwhelm, like, growing on her face.

Tina Tower [00:14:03]:
And at the beginning, I think because they're all new concepts, and it's something like, I know you were really trepidatious of the tech at the start, and now, like, I see you, Karen, just going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, all over kajabi, all over everything. Like, no problem. But at the start, it's like, okay, well, I just want to set up a lead magnet funnel. Like, what do I even click? Where do you find? And everything takes so long. But once you've got a lot of.

Karyn & Helen [00:14:27]:
Swearing at the same time.

Tina Tower [00:14:29]:
Swearing at Jean. Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:14:32]:
And she has to look, you know.

Karyn & Helen [00:14:35]:
You know what I've loved about it? It's a learning journey, too. I think if you take a step back, and it is very overwhelming, there's so many moving parts, and you do it so effortlessly because that's your job and that's your world. So for someone who's come from a service based business, I think you have to flip it on its head and say, okay, this is a challenge, but. And it's going to bring some great things, and you never know where it's going to lead, because look where it's led us now. It's just crazy.

Tina Tower [00:15:02]:
Yeah, okay.

Karyn & Helen [00:15:03]:
We've always had that. Yeah, we've always had that mindset, though, where, you know, we're presented with an opportunity and we go, okay, we're not ready for it. We're not. Whatever. But we don't want to miss it. Let's just agree to it and then figure it out and then completely have this meltdown and go, holy crap, what have we done? But we always make it happen. And I think, too, having the two of us there as a backup and a support system really does help. I think doing that on your own would be extremely.

Karyn & Helen [00:15:35]:
That's how we, that's how we roll, so there would be other people that can take it on. And I think we just have this connection and have been working together for so long that we naturally do things.

Tina Tower [00:15:46]:
And something I see that you do beautifully with each other, too. Like, you never want to let the other person down, so you always push yourself so much and go, I can't let them down. But you both, like, sometimes I'll talk to you individually, and you're both worried about the same thing, and I'm like, you're totally fine.

Karyn & Helen [00:16:00]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:16:01]:
Like, I can't let it down.

Karyn & Helen [00:16:03]:
Yeah, yeah. We're accountable for one another, I guess, and, yeah. And you don't want to disappoint either. And if one of you is thinking, oh, this is not going to work, or this is whatever, and you're a bit of a downer, the other one.

Karyn & Helen [00:16:14]:
Will go, it's like Ying and yang.

Karyn & Helen [00:16:18]:
Yeah. If one's down, the other one will step up. If one's up, you know, it just. It changes. Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:16:24]:
So what was the first online product that you started with?

Karyn & Helen [00:16:27]:
It's still the same one. It's the. It's now called renovation simplified. So it's about preparing for, you know, a new build or a renovation. So it's about to go through another iteration. It was recorded in Covid, so it had that sort of heavy Covid. We were separated for two weeks. So it's just about helping the homeowner get organized for a build or a renovation.

Karyn & Helen [00:16:53]:
And then, as you said before, lots of lead magnets off that, lots of checklists, lots of downloadables. So even diving into that part of the online world and building up our social media has all been progressive throughout these last three years.

Tina Tower [00:17:07]:
And you've experimented a lot with different lead magnets and ways to get yourself out there. Helen, you kind of touched on it a little bit before. When you're like, put ourselves into the deep end and figure out how to do it, it was only, I mean, was it a year, two years? I've lost sense of time lately that you got invited to the home show for the first time and you went on that main stage. When was that?

Karyn & Helen [00:17:27]:
Yeah, two or three years ago.

Karyn & Helen [00:17:30]:
This will be the third year.

Tina Tower [00:17:32]:
Okay. So to me, that was like, I remember that moment and everything really changed for you after that. It was almost like you had seen yourself as running this lifestyle business and having this thing that you played with on the side in your spare time, away from your family. But that was from an outside looking in the first time that you were like, oh, we're actually going to be on this stage. Like, we're actually the people that we've been watching before and we're now those people that are going to be helping other people do that. And you changed your perception of pivoted.

Karyn & Helen [00:18:09]:
Yeah, yeah. I think we were at a home show doing some work for. We were doing some sort of side work for a company in New Zealand, and they were running, like, we attended the home show as on a stand for them. And I won't say who, but we, in our sort of break, we watched someone stand up on stage and deliver, you know, some information or whatever, presentation and looked at Karen and said, you know, we could do that really easy. And we have so much more information to give than what that person had. And then from then on, it was like, okay, we're going to do this.

Karyn & Helen [00:18:50]:
But you know what? I'm going to digress there. I think that turning moment that you're talking about, Tina, is because before that, we started to do weekly lives and we did more social media. And I think that gave us the confidence to, well, we're out every week talking to people on Facebook and Instagram. And I think the stage was just that next level. I think if we hadn't have done all the things that we've done with you and you gave us the push and, like, you literally held a camera and filmed us and said, come on.

Karyn & Helen [00:19:20]:
You two is going to say hello to gun to our head. Because I know what it felt like.

Karyn & Helen [00:19:23]:
May as well have been at the time. It was the phone with the camera on it. Come on, you two, get on with this. So I think doing all those little incremental steps to that moment in time, we thought, well, well, yeah, let's do this. We can.

Tina Tower [00:19:37]:
How did it. When it came time for that? Because I know that there was a lot of fear around it. You're like, it was a really big deal. How did you, like, what did you. Because I know a lot of people will be feeling like this. What did you do to actually deal with the fear of stepping onto that main stage that you've been watching for such a long time?

Karyn & Helen [00:19:52]:
Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:19:52]:
Well, firstly, her empire Builders team. I'm going to call it, because as far as I'm concerned, every member of her empire builder is your team, essentially. And there are some very, very talented women in there that are from all walks of life, from different backgrounds, have different skill sets. And the great thing was, is, okay, we've signed up for this. We're absolutely shitting ourselves. We know we're going to do it and we know it's going to be okay. Can, you know, what do we need to do? And then out of the woodwork come all these beautiful women saying, right, you need to. Here's a tip.

Karyn & Helen [00:20:39]:
Here's another tip. Why don't you do this? This is what I do. This is how I found blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Totally understand your fear. I was going through the same thing. So it was support coming from a. I totally empathize with you because I'm terrified myself, too. Confident public speakers that would say, okay, here are the areas that you could potentially fall down.

Karyn & Helen [00:21:02]:
Here's how to avoid it.

Karyn & Helen [00:21:03]:
But you know what? I also think it was the feedback and the comments we got was, you two are naturals. You'll be good at this. And just them saying it over and over again in different messages, you two are going to be great on stage. So that sort of started to, you know, sink in and reflecting on that, that the girls, the, you know, as you said, we call them the team. They're like our cheer squad, which gearing us on and saying, you too will be fine.

Karyn & Helen [00:21:28]:
The encouragement, the encouragement, the support, the advice, the empathy all comes together. And you've created this amazing group of women that we know that you carefully pick for a reason. And we're grateful that you do because it benefits everybody that's in that group. There's no room for someone to be a negative nancy. There's no room for someone to put anyone down. And it's a really lovely group to be in. And you can be yourself. Authentic self without judgment.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:04]:
And we're our worst enemies when it comes to being judgy of ourselves and putting ourselves down. So it's nice to have somebody else backing you up at the same time. But it was the support, the support.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:14]:
Of the group, I think, that little seeds planted. Come on, girls, you can do this. You can do this. That just. We stepped out there. We were still very, very nervous, and it just became easier and easier. I think the weekend that we did, we obviously must have done a great, a good job because the following, going.

Tina Tower [00:22:33]:
Back for the third year in a.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:35]:
Row, yeah, but the weekend they asked us to fill three spots over three days by so nine slots of talking. I think the second day we just got up and went, this is easy. We've done well.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:49]:
We didn't have time to think about it. It. So we just did it.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:51]:
Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:22:52]:
And then it also opened up a lot.

Tina Tower [00:22:53]:
You just said that you, you know, you're your own worst enemy in terms of judgment, but that obviously proved something to you, that you were far more capable than what you'd let yourself believe beforehand because you changed the trajectory of where you were going after that. And I think that came out in both the online but also in your service base, too, and the work you're doing and the partnerships that you've got and all of that. So can you talk a little bit about the opportunities that have kind of blossomed in those last few years? Because you are the quintessential on a roll right now.

Karyn & Helen [00:23:28]:
Yeah, we are. The universe has got us and it's hurrying us through at the moment on stage led us to forming some great collaborations with key partners and suppliers in our industry. So the next thing that we developed from being on stage was our masterclasses. So we deliver live in person events. We've been to Mudji, we've been to the, we've been going up to the central coast, we've delivered them in all sorts of locations and that approaching people to come on board and support us through that and the credibility from speaking on stage. People look at us, we don't have a huge following, but I think, you know, seeing what we do, how we're out and about and doing different things has led people to, you know, come along and support us along the journey, too. So now we're delivering masterclasses in person events and in support with, you know, the suppliers, which has been fantastic, which is also leading to a very big event that's coming up, as well as.

Karyn & Helen [00:24:24]:
Really good contacts, too, in our industry that are, like, out there and well known, doing what we are like that, recognize we're on a similar path to them. And they've kind of acted as our mentor and sort of said, you know, you guys have got what it takes. I see you up on stage, your banter is great, blahdy blahdy blah. And I don't say that about everybody, which gives you a little bit more confidence. Well, a lot more. And these are, this is my journey and this is how I've gone and these are the things that I've done. So I didn't just come up here and become this well known person overnight. I've had to go through all these stages.

Karyn & Helen [00:25:05]:
And then that mentoring again, I think has helped us along our way because we see them, like you said earlier, Tina, where, you know, we're now becoming the people that we go, oh, they're up there and I'm here. What it's made us realize is that we're all the same. We're essentially human beings doing something. You have a talent, or not even a talent. If there's something that you really want to do, you can actually go out and do it. You've just got to do all the groundwork to get there and have the right contacts and meet the right people.

Karyn & Helen [00:25:40]:
Be in the right place at the.

Karyn & Helen [00:25:41]:
Right time and put yourself out there and not, you know, not be frightened to take, to take risks, I guess. So it's like one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another. And, yeah, I don't know if that.

Tina Tower [00:25:54]:
And that is, that's a really good point that I want everybody listening to be able to take because. Because a question I get often is like, what's the one marketing thing that you could do that makes the biggest difference? And I think what you have done so well is it's everything that's combined together that has all fed off each other. And it's always, you know, I had someone the other day going, I'm posting on social media every day, but it's not getting the traction that I wanted it to have. But it's like, yeah, but where else are you doing? Like, how are you feeding that into third party media and live events and all of the different things that we do? And that is what I think you've really nailed in the last few years is going, you're actually feet on the ground. You're talking to humans in workshops of 20 people, which a lot of people with online businesses think, oh, I won't go and actually meet people. But it's that that then gets word of mouth going, that then shares on social media, that then introduces you to other people, which then feeds it in a bigger way. And you get, like, both that micro and macro going. Have you, like, can you explain a little bit of how you've worked out your marketing strategy and how it's all fed in to each other? Or have you gone, like, to the next thing? To the next thing? To the next thing and just seeing where it takes you?

Karyn & Helen [00:27:06]:
I'll let Karen answer the marketing strategy side of things, but with the stepping stone thing, I'll have to say right at the beginning when it was like, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to do all the things. We were in a position with our business where we couldn't do all the things, and we were initially feeling like, okay, but I don't think that's going to work for our business, because, one, we need to get known for people to pay any attention to us, and two, like, we always had an excuse, and I'm not saying we were using them as an excuse so much. It was we literally, yes, this is working brilliantly for this person in the group. It's not working for us. Is that because our situation is different or is it because we're missing something? So we would go back and look at what we had to do and go, okay, well, yes, we should be having a podcast. Yes, we should be public speaking. Yes, we should be doing all these things. We can't physically possibly do them all at once now.

Karyn & Helen [00:28:08]:
So we would go, okay, what's the next thing? So we'd step by step. So we started off doing the lives, then we started off, I don't know what were the other. We'd have these weekly. I guess it was like a podcast.

Karyn & Helen [00:28:20]:
Interviews.

Karyn & Helen [00:28:21]:
Yes, interviews are like, on, you know, social media that we did, which was kind of like a podcast, but without the commitment and the scariness of it all. So we did that. Then we. We just kind of went step by step. And at one stage through this, probably a couple of years there, where we were sort of encouraged to put out a podcast, and we'd be like, we just don't have the capacity or the headspace to do that. Let's park that. We know we need to do it. Let's park it, and we'll do it it in a year or two, and then we pick that up.

Karyn & Helen [00:28:53]:
So it's like you said, for us, it's gradual. For other people, they can just go, right, I'm in. All in. Yeah, the end of the day, you've got to do it all.

Tina Tower [00:29:01]:
I want to ask on that because I think it's a brilliant way to do it because you're not. You're not overwhelming yourself. You've got realistic time expectations, but there's also frustration that comes with that, because everything happening and you're like, I just want to do it. And you're almost like a horse with a bit in its mouth, not being able to do everything at once. How did you deal with the frustration and the feeling? Because obviously it's all paid off, doing exceptionally well. Now. And you can always look at it from the long game when you're at the end and go, it was all worked, but when you're in it, it feels like people are going faster than you and that you should be doing this and you're not doing that. How did you deal with that from a psychological point of view, to run your own race?

Karyn & Helen [00:29:38]:
I think we. I'm going to put it back to her empire builder. It's the 90 day planning and then looking at the overall year as well. And as Helen said, we couldn't physically do everything because we're still doing the service based side of things. And it was picking which ones and looking strategically them that we were thinking, okay, we've done the lives. Okay, we can speak on stage now from speaking on stage. The master classes came from that. And then, you know, well, we should have a podcast.

Karyn & Helen [00:30:05]:
As soon as the podcast came out, it was just so psychologically dealing with. It was just little bite size chunks of great way to handle at the time. And just looking at the year as a whole. Love working with you and saying, okay, right. Well, that was the year of the podcast. The podcast led to, you know, international guests and things like that. So having the podcast speaking on stage and then now that's going to lead to a television opportunity. So.

Karyn & Helen [00:30:33]:
But doing, you know, back to psychological.

Tina Tower [00:30:37]:
How, you can't just gloss over that, too. Like, and then it led to a television opportunity.

Karyn & Helen [00:30:41]:
We have to talk about that.

Karyn & Helen [00:30:43]:
I think that's why I stopped in my tracks then and lost my train of thought. I was like, oh, gosh, I think, yeah, we are.

Tina Tower [00:30:48]:
We're going to be on tv. Okay. Okay. We're going to go straight into there because I don't want to leave people hanging. So you're going to be on tv next year?

Karyn & Helen [00:30:55]:
We're going to be on tv.

Karyn & Helen [00:30:57]:
Yes.

Tina Tower [00:30:57]:
And this kind of happened the way a lot of things have happened is you've put yourself into these positions because you put yourself out there, you've built your profile, you've said yes to things, and then they've led to the next step along there. But even with this, it's like every time you just push yourself out of your comfort zone. Cause now you're like, yeah, this is what we're doing. It's working really well. Like, we've got it all set up. But I remember when the idea first came across the desk and both of you were like, ooh, I don't know. Helen was like, hell, no. Maybe, but I don't think so.

Tina Tower [00:31:29]:
So talk to us about how that came about and how you make the decision of what you say yes to and what you go all in on. Cause I think that's really helpful for people as well.

Karyn & Helen [00:31:37]:
It was a no at first because it looked very, very overwhelming. And the thought of being on television is just beyond just being on social media or on your podcast or on stage. It's like a national network we're going to be on.

Tina Tower [00:31:49]:
If you don't think about it, though, it's exactly the same as being actually easier than being on stage because people aren't staring at you.

Karyn & Helen [00:31:55]:
Well, that's true. That's very true. So we parked it. It's only happened in the last month, and we parked it for two weeks and we spoke about it and said, it's all too much. There's just with everything else going on and it's a whole other animal in itself. Then sat back, had chats with a few, like, to be honest, people that we now partner with who are from big, big companies. They were you girls. This is a golden opportunity.

Karyn & Helen [00:32:20]:
Should just take it on and say yes. So it just flipped in two weeks. That was a no to a yes.

Karyn & Helen [00:32:27]:
And backup with our suppliers has been a huge thing because, I don't know, it gives you a little bit more confidence. The fact that they're investing in you kind of makes you think, oh, okay.

Karyn & Helen [00:32:42]:
And it's just. We would be silly to say no because, as you said, it's like increments. It's the next level. And from a marketing perspective, we wouldn't have been asked if we're not capable. They would have looked at us, I'm sure. But in terms of next level for the business, it would have been silly to say no because the opportunities from this are just going to be incredible. And it feels good. At first, it was very overwhelming and scary, but now it sits really well with both of us.

Tina Tower [00:33:08]:
And so you coming out on Channel nine next year?

Karyn & Helen [00:33:12]:
Channel nine next year, probably around this time next year.

Tina Tower [00:33:16]:
Amazing. And then you'll have all of, like, so many online course sales out of that and so many downloads, podcasts, channeling.

Karyn & Helen [00:33:25]:
It all back to that.

Karyn & Helen [00:33:26]:
Well, that's. That's why now, it initially started off with Karen saying, okay, let's put a YouTube series together of this renovation, because we just. We were looking for ways to get traction for our online course. The people that had done it had said, this is brilliant, this is really helpful or whatever, but trying to get people to buy something that's nothing, not so sexy. That they need is really, really difficult, especially if you don't have the name or the credibility that's out there. So then we thought we'd put together this YouTube video of the series of the renovation, what's involved. So people are looking at it, immersing in it. We can talk about it and get them interested and understand what they have to go through.

Karyn & Helen [00:34:14]:
Then from that we spoke to somebody in the industry that's been there, done that to a certain degree and had lunch with them and went through and got seeked. We actually actively went out to get advice and say, okay, we know you've done this. Can you give us some tips? Can you help us? How are we going to do this? Which was brilliant. And then from that, it's just like everything lined up. And then we had this opportunity to actually go onto tv. And the first thing I thought was, yes, we can let the tv, the network do it and we don't have to do these YouTube videos and do it ourselves. God. Because that's a lot of work, as you would know.

Karyn & Helen [00:35:00]:
But now we're doing both. So of course we're doing all we worth it. So we now thought, well, let's align the YouTube videos with the course and combine the two because I think it needs to be more visual than somebody, a talking head.

Tina Tower [00:35:14]:
So amazing. So amazing. My next question, I ask every member that comes on, but I'm not going to get you to answer it because, you know, you guys are just so wonderful. You've seen it in it's what do you love most about her? Empire builder. But you've just seeded it all the way through, which gives me love, heart, eyes. So you don't have to answer that one because you've already said the community and the support and all of those things, which, I mean, I think that, and even you saying with your suppliers, like there was, I can't remember who wrote it, Lois. Someone wrote a book called Nice Girls don't get the corner office. And I remember reading it when I started franchising and I thought I was too nice and I couldn't be successful in business because I was just like this nice people pleasing person.

Tina Tower [00:36:00]:
And what I love about your story is all of your niceness has come back to help you. And so much of what I see happen inside her empire builder so often is the people that help other people every time they need help. There's so many people there to pick them up and lift them up and give it. And it's just like this, this roundabout world where everyone tries to give each other a leg up constantly. And it is definitely my favorite thing about it. But it has also been really nice to see the rewriting of this rhetoric that we were raised within that you've got to be a bit of a ball breaker, which I think for women in their sixties and seventies. Now, that was probably true, but it's no longer true for us. Coming through.

Tina Tower [00:36:42]:
You can be a nice girl and get everything that you deserve to get. And it all comes about, which is, you know, it's a testament to you in that you got this opportunity for the tv going, can we actually ask companies to sponsor us and do all this? And they're like, you've got it. Like, you're amazing. We want to support you and give you all of that. Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:37:02]:
And I'm going to actually say it's a testament to you too, because we.

Karyn & Helen [00:37:07]:
Do a love festivity.

Karyn & Helen [00:37:09]:
But honestly, Tina, the trajectory that you've taken us on and the fun times, the travel, but the learnings, the online has just, it's all, it all comes back to you. And that is the honest truth. We would not, we would still be designing and drafting and meeting and doing what we're trained to do.

Karyn & Helen [00:37:30]:
Bad thing. I just do enjoy that side of it. But we wouldn't have had such side.

Tina Tower [00:37:36]:
I mean, it is cool. Like my whole, my whole reason for starting business, it was the same in franchising, it's the same now, is I like to see women like, chase their dreams and feel that little giggle in there and go, I think I'm capable of more. Like, I think I can do this and then do it. And it has been so freaking awesome to watch you get out of your comfort zone and do things and like high five each other and blow your own mind in going, what did we just do? We just did that. That was amazing. Who even are we? It's very cool.

Karyn & Helen [00:38:07]:
I think, too, somebody that's older myself, and having had a career in teaching before this and then changing my career, which is so unheard of for my generation, women just stuck with what they knew. They didn't step out. No, I'm getting old now. I've got a family. And we did prioritize our family and that was, that was our choice. And I, I don't, you know, exactly. And that did slow our journey as well and our earning capacity at the time as well. But we made that decision independently of one another.

Karyn & Helen [00:38:45]:
But I have found that now, and I still get it to a certain degree from, I won't sort of, say, like, friends, acquaintances or whatever people. And a little bit less now, but probably a few years ago, it's like, what are you doing that for? Why don't you want to retire? Like, shouldn't you be retiring? You know, and I'm like, I don't want to retire. Like, I don't want to live so long now.

Tina Tower [00:39:13]:
I mean, what are you going to do for the next 50 years?

Karyn & Helen [00:39:17]:
And, yeah, and who says we have to stick to that traditional, you know, you get to a certain age and you retire, like, we can break those molds and, you know, continue on. There's no. No slowing us down.

Karyn & Helen [00:39:27]:
No, there's not. But I think people, your loved ones in particular, see you working so hard. So if anyone out there thinks that it's an easy ride, it's not. It's hard. And then Karen and I went back and studied two years ago, like, as well as run the business, as well as try and do, and we really put ourselves under an incredible amount of pressure. And that wasn't the best years of life, that particular time, but it was a means to an end, and that also worked in our favor as well with the, you know, with the interior design side of the business. But I think you need to be, women in particular need to be thick skinned, and they need to believe in themselves, and they need a team to keep them going, because there are so many naysayers out there that try and put you back into your box and back into your place, and, like, why would you even want to do that? Like, what? What are you achieving? Yeah. And, look, there's been times where we're struggling financially because we're doing all the things, and we're not putting all of our energy in our paid work because we just don't have the time of the day.

Karyn & Helen [00:40:32]:
But we could see it as a means to an end. And I think for women out there, if there's something you really want to do, and, let's face it, chase it, we want to feel like we're worthy. We want to feel like we've achieved something. Why do the menta, and I'm not being, you know, sexist or anything, but it's expected of men. It's not expected of women. So I think you need to push past all of that.

Karyn & Helen [00:40:57]:
I think it's changed.

Karyn & Helen [00:40:58]:
Focus on what you want to do.

Karyn & Helen [00:41:00]:
Definitely. Watching our girls grow up.

Karyn & Helen [00:41:02]:
Oh, they definitely. Yeah, sure.

Tina Tower [00:41:04]:
Yeah, for sure. Thank goodness. Okay, my last question is, what does success look like for you now?

Karyn & Helen [00:41:13]:
Hmm.

Karyn & Helen [00:41:16]:
I think success for us is to I guess finally, I don't know where we're going to. To be honest, I don't think there is an end to it. But finally, I think even now we're now feeling like we've been more and more successful because we can now see that all the hard work is starting to pay off. To see that, right?

Tina Tower [00:41:41]:
Giving yourself that moment and getting off the treadmill for a little bit and going, look at, look at what we've done here. Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:41:47]:
Yeah. And really, again, thanks to our wonderful team of supporters. You know, it, sometimes it takes somebody else to point that out to you because it's a hard slog and you just, you know, you just keep going and keep going and keep going. We can recognize it, but we feel like we're right near the tipping point. So, so once that tv show happens and I guess once we get out there and people kind of not, and I'm not saying recognize us on the street, but are aware of us and I don't know, I just think to.

Tina Tower [00:42:20]:
Me, like people are coming to you rather than you going to.

Karyn & Helen [00:42:24]:
They are. Yeah.

Karyn & Helen [00:42:25]:
I was going to say that the, you know, the people that are around us and supporting us are coming to us and saying, oh, you. How about McCrae and Lynch get involved here? McCrae and lynch get involved there. And also for me, success is my family just, I can see they're really super proud of Helen and I and just, you know, that success to say, look, look at those two women in our lives that are, you know, they're doing, being themselves, doing their thing and look what's come our way from, as Helen said, the hard work. So I think that's success.

Tina Tower [00:42:57]:
Yay. I am so proud of you. It's such a, I know that can sound condescending to say that, but I am, though, like, it's so beautiful seeing you set the goals and do it and do it together and do it with so much grace and so much class and so much fun that you have as well. Like, you're going to be hilarious, which is such a joy to be around. So thank you for sharing your story. I will link to the podcast two gins in as well as the course. If anyone's got a renovation coming up, all of that will be in the show notes below so that you can find Karen and Helen and follow along so that you can watch them on.

Karyn & Helen [00:43:31]:
Tv next year, too.

Tina Tower [00:43:34]:
Thank you so much.

Karyn & Helen [00:43:35]:
Thank you, Tina.

Tina Tower [00:43:37]:
This episode was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, her Empire builder, the best online education for female course creators in the world. Check it out @tinatower.com. along with so many free resources to help you get building your empire and seeing those results that you deserve. If you loved this episode, please don't keep it a secret. Share it with a friend on social media and tag me @tina_tower and give it a review. It really does help us to be able to bring you bigger and better content as we grow. Have the most beautiful day. I'm Tina Tower, and I'm cheering you on all the way.