There's no denying the patriarchy is alive and well. In this episode I am talking with Megan Dalla-Camina about how we can notice the gender bias that is holding us back and what we can do to become empowered, embrace our power - and rise!

Megan Dalla-Camina is the Founder and CEO of Women Rising and a world leading expert in women’s leadership. A celebrated coach, influential writer, researcher and advocate for change, Megan is known for her brave and refreshing approach to women’s empowerment, wellbeing and leadership. Megan fuses a 20-year career as an executive and multi-billion dollar strategist for corporate heavyweights including IBM, GE and PwC with deep academic credentials and more than a decade of researching, teaching and leading gender diversity and women’s leadership initiatives around the world.

Megan is also a best-selling author and will launch her next book, Women Rising, on August 28th 2024. Leading publisher, Wiley, has announced its acquisition of the global rights to the book. Her work has also been featured in hundreds of media outlets globally including Forbes, Fortune, Psychology Today, CNN, Inc, Fast Company and Thrive Globa. In 2023, Megan was recognised as B&T's ‘Woman of the Year’ and ‘Mentor of the Year’ and won the 2024 Telstra Best of Business Awards in the Accelerating Women category (NSW).

Women Rising fast facts:

1. Fast-tracked the careers of 6,700 women in just three years
2. Participants from 660 global organisations including Atlassian and Microsoft
3. Women across 66 countries have completed Women Rising programs

 

Where to find Megan

Pre-order Megan's new book here

Instagram here

Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hi, friends. Welcome to episode 251 of her Empire Builder show. I am your host, Tina Tower, and today I have a bit of a superstar guest on the podcast. Megan Dallakamina is somebody that I have followed for a really, really long time. You'll hear in the episode how I first found Megan. And Megan came on because she has an incredible new book coming out, Women rise, which is out in August. I've got in the show notes a link that you can pre order her book and get all of the bonuses, which I think you're going to want to do after listening to this episode because, one, she's so incredibly smart and insightful. And the thing is, where we are in this time in history with women's rights and with awareness and with everything that is going on in the world, it's so prevalent and we're on quite a big shift, I find.

Tina Tower [00:01:09]:
And the awareness is really high. Like we, if you are a woman and you are listening to this, you know what we deal with on a daily basis and the way that gender bias does affect our lives. And I'm giving a couple of examples of that from myself recently in this episode. And, you know, there's this big thing now and going, well, we know it's there and it's undeniable, but then what do you do about it? And is it our problem to solve? And how do we actually navigate and live these empowered lives when we know that that bias is just going to be there? And so we're talking a lot about that in this episode, how Megan has gone from a very illustrious corporate career into business and is just putting out her fourth book, how she's got her masters and going into her PhD. And we're talking about everything in between. We kind of dot around, which is my favorite type of conversations when they flow. But let me give you the formal intro of Megan so I can give it justice. Megan Dallakamina is the founder and CEO of Women Rising and a world leading expert in women's leadership.

Tina Tower [00:02:20]:
A celebrated coach, influential writer, researcher and advocate for change, Megan is known for her brave and refreshing approach to women's empowerment, wellbeing and leadership. Megan fuses a 20 year career as an executive and multi billion dollar strategist for corporate heavyweights including IBM, GE and PwC. With deep academic credentials and more than a decade of researching, teaching and leading gender diversity and women's leadership initiatives around the world, Megan is also a best selling author and will launch her next book, Women rising on 28 August. Leading publisher Wiley, who's also my publisher, has announced its acquisition of the global rights to the book. Her work has been featured in hundreds of media outlets globally, including Forbes, Fortune, Psychology Today, CNN Inc. Fast Company and Thrive Global. In 2023, Megan was recognised as B and T's Women of the year and mentor of the year and won the 2024 Telstra Best of business awards in accelerating women category. So, you know, badass, right? She is fantastic and fabulous.

Tina Tower [00:03:29]:
And I know you're going to get so much out of this conversation, probably a little enraged at parts because of the injustice of it all, but really practical in terms of empowering us as women to be able to embrace our power and lead in life in both our own lives and the lives of others. Enjoy. Hello and welcome to her Empire Builder show. I'm your business strategist and host, Tina Tower, and I am so happy you are here. My goal with this show is to bring you the inspirational and informative conversations with interesting humans, as well as the tools to tips and resources to help you build your online business. Since starting my first business at 20, I have built and sold four times. And in 2018, while traveling around the world with my family for a year, I tripped and fell into this wonderful world of online courses, and I instantly fell in love. I'm a million dollar course creator, a world traveler, best selling author, a mama of two man children, and a lucky one.

Tina Tower [00:04:33]:
There's no playing small here. It's your time to grow to run a highly profitable business that makes you wildly wealthy while you positively impact your clients and the world around you and have the life you've always dreamed of. Let's get it. The fabulous Megan Dalekamina. Welcome to her empire builder show.

Main Episode

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:04:56]:
Hi. I'm so happy to be here. Very excited for our conversation.

Tina Tower [00:04:59]:
I know. I am excited to have you on here. I have followed along for years and years. So this is very exciting. I got your email, you know, as part of your book promotion and was like, oh, my gosh, yes. Which of my favorite emails to get when people are like, you know, I was thinking of coming on your show, like, would you be keen? I'm like, would I be keen? They're the best ones. They're welcome. Okay, so let's get straight into it.

Tina Tower [00:05:26]:
So you've had a very impressive career spanning over the last two decades with corporate giants like IBM and GE and PwC. What lessons did you learn from those experiences with the mass companies that you believe are essential for women leading small businesses today?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:05:45]:
Oh, that's a good question.

Tina Tower [00:05:47]:
Thanks.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:05:49]:
Yeah. So I spent nearly 20 years in corporate so I've been in my own business for eleven, and I did 18 years in corporate, so a long time I've been working. I'm very old. Sure.

Tina Tower [00:06:04]:
I said that to someone yesterday. Like, this year, I'm celebrating my 20th year since I started my business. And they were like, what? How old are you? Yeah. I'm like, I know. And it's like, we've been married 20 years. Next year, my kids are getting ready to finish high school, and I'm like, all it does is make me feel, like, older than I feel.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:06:24]:
Oh, that's so interesting, because I talk about this a lot because I'm doing a lot of work going into midlife. Sorry, I will answer your question, but you just got to go with go.

Tina Tower [00:06:33]:
Yeah, I love the digression.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:06:35]:
And, like, these years, like, forties, I'm in my fifties, so forties, but the fifties, like, these are the best years. Like, I want women to get so excited about midlife.

Tina Tower [00:06:48]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:06:49]:
Because this is where for so many women, the power.

Tina Tower [00:06:54]:
Yeah. Do you know, I hear that from, like, woman after woman after woman in going, every decade just gets better and better. And I was talking to, like, someone the other day who was in mid twenties, and they were like, you know, I'm just worried about everything and worrying about so many things that I'm like, oh, none of that will matter to you soon. Like, you will let all of that go. It's such a blessing. It's beautiful.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:07:18]:
Beautiful. And I talked to my 30 year old ea. She's like, oh. All I hear from everyone is that it sucks getting older. And I'm like, no, no, no. Let's just change that patriarchal bullshit.

Tina Tower [00:07:31]:
Yeah, these are the best years.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:07:33]:
So anyway, back to your question. What did I learn? Oh, look, it's such a good question. The first thing that I would say is, like, get really clear on what you want. And by that I mean, where. So for business owners that I learned when I was in corporate that clarity around who you are, what your values are, what your purpose is. Like, for that, I always ask the question, for the sake of what? Like, for the sake of what are you doing the things for the sake of what? Do you have an offering? For the sake of what do you even have your business in the first place?

Tina Tower [00:08:10]:
That's something I think we forget a lot is why we started in the first place.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:08:14]:
We do. And we get so busy in our businesses, in the doing and the running and the treadmill and the hustle, that we forget why am I even here? And I just came off our leadership team meeting, and I said to my team, like, I want you all just to be really hooked into the impact that we're making because it's so easy to get lost in the 500,000 projects that we forget. And then we get an email, it says, you changed my life, and we got to stay connected to the why of why we're doing it. So I think that's really important. The other thing that I would say is, like, you have to look after yourself. You have to look after yourself. And it's something else that as business owners, happens in corporate, of course, all the time for business owners, that we're just always in our business, like, it never seems to end. Where's the self care? Where are the boundaries? Where are your non negotiables around how you take care of yourself? Where's your time for creativity, spirituality, like, whatever it is that renews you? Keeping in mind that resilience is not about endurance.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:09:29]:
It's about renewal. So what does that renewal look like for you throughout your days, your weeks, your quarters, your year? And, yeah, so let's start with those two things. I think that clarity and the taking care of yourself for business owners is exceptionally important.

Tina Tower [00:09:46]:
I love that. It's something too, that I think is so much easier said than done. Yes. Like, there's, like, I had Covid a couple weeks ago, and it's something that every time I get, I very, very rarely get sick because I do know that as a business owner, I take very good care of myself because I know that, like, I'm behind so many things that if I do bow out, it's like many other things can fall straight after it. So I do, like, prioritize my health quite a lot, a lot more now than I used to ten years ago because I'm not as bouncy as what I was then. But I do think, like, when I talk to business owners and they're like, well, you know, that's all well and good if I want to take a day off here or a day off there and do that. But I talk to a lot of business owners that go, I can't take like, a four week vacation anymore. And I will constantly say, like, of course you can.

Tina Tower [00:10:37]:
Here's all the examples of people that have done that and been fine. But what do you say when women say that to you? Because you get it too, right?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:10:43]:
All the time. And what I say is, you don't need to take a four week vacation, right? Like, for me, it's always about this is what I coach, and I coach thousands and thousands of women every year. And what I'm always saying at the fundamental premise of it is, what are you doing today? Where's the ten minutes? Right. You don't need four. If you can take four weeks, like hallelujah, go do that. But what we have to learn as women is the continual renewal that we need in our days and that continual restoration, that's what sets up our well being. It's not the four week vacation.

Tina Tower [00:11:21]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:11:21]:
So where are the daily micro habits and the micro moments that are non negotiable for you? You know, so for me, it's my morning practice. It's my evening practice. Sometimes that's an hour and a half, sometimes it's ten minutes.

Tina Tower [00:11:36]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:11:36]:
You know, it's the having the lunch, where's the healthy meal? What are you doing at the end of the day to wind down? How's your sleep? These fundamental things that happen every day, not just the big moments where you get to get away.

Tina Tower [00:11:49]:
Totally. I would totally agree. One of the things I implemented at the start of the year, because I wasn't getting enough steps in my day, it was I had all these health things that I've been working on, like different levers for the last few years and I'm going, I just can't get the steps up. Like, I work from home. There's no incidental exercise in my day. Like, I just, I have to be very purposeful for it and for a lot of it. And, you know, people would judge me for this and that is fine because I know people will also resonate with it. But I found it a waste of time to go if I'm just going to go walk for an hour and a half.

Tina Tower [00:12:21]:
Like, there's so many other things I could be doing with that time and I found it really difficult to take that time out for myself. So what I did at the start of the year, I bought a treadmill and every 90 minutes an alarm goes off on my phone and I walk on the treadmill for ten minutes. So when you said, like, the ten minutes, I'm like, ten minutes goes by like that, it feels like nothing. And I have tripled my amount of daily steps and I'm trying to add like a thousand average every month to it. And it's just like, it's. I don't think I've ever done something that's been such a significant habit change that snowballed into so many other different things.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:12:54]:
Yes. Yeah. We underestimate the power of a ten minute habit.

Tina Tower [00:12:59]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:00]:
Now we think, oh, that's not going to make a difference. But if you. If you did that what you're doing, or you insert a ten minute meditation habit every day, it will change your life. Like, there's no question, I think. So if you fix your sleep and get that extra 30 minutes of sleep, that will change your wellbeing.

Tina Tower [00:13:16]:
Yes.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:16]:
So, yeah, we've got to focus on the small things and appreciate the small things and ritualize them whilst also thinking about, okay, well, where's the vacation time?

Tina Tower [00:13:27]:
Yes. Yeah, totally. I would like both. I want this and that.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:30]:
Yes, of course. Let's have all the things, right?

Tina Tower [00:13:34]:
Yeah, totally.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:35]:
But if you could only choose one. It's the things you do every day, right. Not the things that you do sometimes that matter the most.

Tina Tower [00:13:42]:
And what I find is you don't want to be limping into the vacation either, in, like, such an exhausted state.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:48]:
Which is what most people do. You know, we. The vacation, we limp to the vacation. We get on vacation. What happens on day one? We get sick.

Tina Tower [00:13:56]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:13:57]:
We've just spent twelve months and then the last four weeks hustling like crazy people to get to go on holiday. And then we spend the first four days in bed. Yeah, yeah. We have to continually renew.

Tina Tower [00:14:10]:
Yeah. Okay. So like I said before, I have followed you for a long time. We've never actually met or spoken, though. But back in, like, I want to say, 2015 ish, I had your website printed out on my mood board when I was creating my personal brand site. Still, it just looked. It looked classy as f. Like, it was.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:14:35]:
I love that.

Tina Tower [00:14:36]:
Beautiful. I was trying to find a photo of it so that I could share it, but I couldn't because, you know, you have a lot of photos of your office in the background. I was like, that'd be hilarious if I send that to it. But I couldn't find a photo anyway, it was there. And you've evolved a lot over the time as, as we all do now, as the founder and CEO of Women rising. What inspired you to make the leap into this current evolution that you're running?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:15:00]:
Yes, I love that. I just love that. That's so inspiring because you never know who's watching and you never know the impact that that's going to have on their journey and their purpose, and that works. So thank you for sharing that with me. That's made me smile so big. So, like, it is an evolution. I had an 18 year career, like, a long career, and then eleven years of my own business. And when I started my business, it was, you know, came out of a big job in corporate, high profile, doing a lot of, I was head of strategy at IBM, but I was also doing a lot of work around women.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:15:40]:
So I knew, okay, this is the path, coaching, speaking all of the things, and then just watched that evolve. Where was I of my service? Where was there revenue? Yeah. How would I sustain that? And then three and a half years ago, I built the women rising model, which is the journey map for the program that we teach at the heart of women rising. And it felt to me like this is the culmination of 20 years of my work, of all of my master's degrees and all of the coaching and the corporate experience because it's mostly professional women that we, you know, that I teach. So, yeah, I thought this is just going to be a program. You know, this will be the women rising program, and it'll be great. It's an evolution of so much of my other work, and it just exploded. And then the brand, I mean, I personally built the first website for women rising, and what we have now is an iteration.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:16:41]:
Our brand designer made it. You know what it is today.

Tina Tower [00:16:44]:
Yep.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:16:45]:
But I thought this will be a great program. We'll see what happens with it. And it's just, yeah, like we're in scale up phase now, not startup phase, for the women rising company. We're doing male allies work. And that program, we've got advanced training for coaches and leaders. So it's this beautiful evolution and that point that I think all of us dream about as business, as entrepreneurs of, when you get that, the right offering at the right time, in the right package, in the right moment, in the zeitgeist with the right support around it for it to go, you know, I.

Tina Tower [00:17:27]:
Think it was also a good time in the market. Like her empire builder, the program that I run started exactly four years ago. So very similar time to when you launch women rising. And it, I also, like, totally resonate with, I'd done so many different things and built and sold four different businesses and so many vastly different things. And it's like this program uses every skill I have ever acquired and takes everything together. And it just clicked so beautifully. And I think there was a part of that and putting us into Covid that really made us have some self discovery there as well. But it was also a really great time in the market to be launching something.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:18:07]:
Yeah, and like, there's something to be said for that. Right? There's something to be said that you can and different things, like similar things or different things in a different package as well. I think there's real resonance in that for business owners and coming out, we were the same. I did my pilot program for women rising pre Covid was a great success. Went into our first decent sized, round Covid hit. And, you know, we target organizations and women, you know, excuse me, sorry. Women in organizations and corporate roles. And it was just this perfect moment where no one could do face to face development.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:18:58]:
Everyone was like, oh, well, let's try this online thing. And off we went.

Tina Tower [00:19:02]:
Yeah, that's fantastic. And so with your. You've got your upcoming book coming out very soon, which is also called women rising out in August, I believe. Yeah, yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:19:13]:
August 28.

Tina Tower [00:19:14]:
Nice, nice, nice. I'm like, what date? What date are we coming out? We're coming out end of June. So we'll be able to pre order, which will be great. We'll link to that down in the show notes. But what are the central themes of the book?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:19:29]:
Yes. So this book is all about the forces outside of us that hold women back and the stories that we tell inside of us that keep us stuck and then the tools to help us rise.

Tina Tower [00:19:44]:
Yeah, nice.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:19:45]:
Yeah. Thank you. They're the three parts of the book. So in the first part, I'm looking at what I call the paradoxes of power. What are the forces around the patriarchy and power structures that is like this invisible force field around women, particularly working women, that hold us back, that we're really not. Most women are not aware that that exists. And one of the reasons it's so important to have that awareness around these paradoxes of power. And they're things like the motherhood paradox.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:20:22]:
You know, we expect women to be great mothers but work like they don't have children. It's one of the paradoxes. And there's, you know, there's five others. Is that what I see in our community so often is like, we think it's just us, particularly for professional women. You know, we're in patriarchal structures. We think that the reason we're not succeeding is because there's something wrong with us when in fact, so much of it, of course, is about, you know, the systemic nature that holds women back. So that's the first part. The second part is all around the inner critic.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:20:55]:
And I dive into and have created these archetypes of the inner critic, which is very cool things like the perfectionist, the people pleaser, the good girl, the overachiever. And what does that actually mean from an inner critic? Perspective and the stories that you tell yourself that hold you back from taking the action that you want to take, and how do you move through that? And then part three is six tools for rising that we can use to get really practical and intentional about how we go and create what we want to create.

Tina Tower [00:21:26]:
That sounds like an absolutely fabulous book. I can't wait to read it, because I want to ask you about something that I encountered last week, because I think that it would be relatable to a lot of people, and. And I'd love to know, like, what you're seeing through the time changing with that. So I live a very insular life. I live on a farm north of Sydney. I don't leave very often, and when I do, it's usually with other women. And so I run retreats, women conferences, like, do a lot of things with women. Very rarely am I in public, like, dealing with new people.

Tina Tower [00:22:06]:
It's just, you know, I just don't get out as much as what I probably should. And I used to think that I just wasn't good enough, wasn't smart enough, different thing. And then I've come to, as I've gotten older, really understand that men have a certain level of assumed awesomeness that women don't kind of walk into a room with. And for a while, I thought that was in my head, and I was making that, so. But I get examples of it all the time and what happens. Last week, we went to a conference, my husband and I, because we wanted to learn about a new thing together. I have the business. My husband kind of dabbles a little bit at the side.

Tina Tower [00:22:42]:
So we came, went together. We were there. A very tall, very dapper looking man comes up to us, hi, how you going? Shakes my husband's hand, introduces himself, did not even look at me. Now, I'm very short. I'm five foot one. And both of them were six foot, six foot one. And so I understand that that's a thing as well. But a couple of times, a little bit of a lull into the conversation, I went, hi, I'm tina.

Tina Tower [00:23:07]:
And he looked down at me and just like, smile. Teeth, like, mouth closed smile, and a nod, like, mm hmm, yeah, nice to see you. Anyway, he was asking my husband about all this tech. My husband even said, oh, that's tina's department, or tina knows more about that. Dude ignored me the whole time. Then at the end of the conference, the person on the stage called me out and was like, tina Tower's here. And give us a wave, tina. And the dude comes up at the end because he'd come and spoken to my husband about three times, came up to me and went, I'm so sorry.

Tina Tower [00:23:38]:
I didn't know who you are. I was. And introduced himself and went to shake my hand. I'm like, you, dick, it happens all the time. And I was so disheartened when I left because I was going, you know, if I had done a program, and this was one of the reasons I did her empire builder was when I first started in coaching, I would get a lot of women and a lot of men would come for private coaching, but never anything in the open. And I thought that was a really interesting part of it. So I thought, well, if women are coming anyway, I'll just double down on women and try and make women kick the ass of being able to do that. But with that, are you seeing that get less in our industry? Are you still seeing it just as much? And how do we deal with that?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:24:27]:
So this is the patriarchy, right? I got to be very clear, alive and well. It is alive and well. And that this is the invisible layer. And then you have an experience like that, and what most women do in an experience like that, think, oh, I'm not good enough. Do I deserve to be here? All of the inner critic stuff comes up, right? Because of the way that we've been treated by somebody else. And it is systemic. And there are, like, when we look at work for women, and it's whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you are in a, you know, a corporate structure, there are specific types of gender bias that impact women wherever we go. And whether it's being dismissed, ignored, talked over in a meeting, whether it's a founder going to pitch for funding, and she gets completely, you know, ignored, dismissed, all of the same things, which happens all the time.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:25:26]:
What are we at? Like, 3% of funding goes to female startups. It's just such a disgusting number. 3%. And I think we just got to 3%. This is all part of the system that we live and operate in. What I'm on a mission to do is help women really understand that part of this book and this work is this awakening of this isn't about me. This is about the forces outside of me, and I need to be educated and aware as to what they are so I can see them when they happen, and then I can go and do my own inner work to really claim my power.

Tina Tower [00:26:10]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:26:11]:
So, yeah. Am I seeing it get better? Hmm. Like, it's such a nuanced question. I'll tell you what I am seeing. I am seeing that the conversation we're having in the zeitgeist is shifting. And, like, if you just look at, you know, pop culture and movies and, you know, Barbie and, I don't know if you've seen the girls on the bus series, that's just come out incredible. If you really want to get into, you know, into this discussion, the zeitgeist is shifting, which is a hugely positive sign because it means there's more people waking up to the fact that there is this thing called the patriarch. It still exists, and we have to rise up to.

Tina Tower [00:26:59]:
Totally, totally. Yeah. Just makes me think, if I had a penis, I wonder how much more successful I would be.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:27:04]:
Well, look at the data. A lot.

Tina Tower [00:27:06]:
Yeah, yeah. Which is very enraging, which is why.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:27:12]:
We need to wake up to that fact. Right. As a collective, not just as individual women together.

Tina Tower [00:27:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, so. Well, I've kind of got my next question here, which is kind of similar to what we've gone into already. Because you've done so much extensive research in gender diversity and women's leadership, what do you see? Are the common women, the common barriers that women are facing, and what advice do you give them in overcoming them? So you've just said, like, the first is being aware of it so that you can see it and understand it and process it and get into your power with it. But, I mean, is it our job? Like, with the example I just shared, should I have said, hey, dude, like, I'm down here, too? Like, it's just easier to ignore?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:27:59]:
Yeah. Look, I think we all have a different path of navigating through. You know, the first piece is be aware of the environment that you are operating in. So if you're a business owner and you are, you know, seeing things with clients or potential partners or you're going for funding, and what's your strategy? Like, be aware of the landscape. If you are going to get, you know, outside capital, what are you walking into? How do you deal with that? Who's done it before? What, you know, what's going to work for you? So much information out there around that. Connect with people. Get a mentor, get a coach. Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:28:34]:
And then it's about what is my work to do. So there's fixing the system over here, and then there's empowering ourselves. Two parts of the equation of what it's going to take to change, to create change. And the piece around empowering ourselves is around the clarity. What do I want my life to look like? What's my purpose? What do I want my business to look like? Why am I here? What is my work to do?

Tina Tower [00:29:02]:
Which are all very big questions that you've just said.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:29:05]:
They're very big questions, but you can start small, right? You don't need to. I always try and demystify purpose for women because we think that we get struck by our purpose. You know, where the research tells us that we actually build our purpose. And what I talk about is we build our purpose by following the breadcrumbs. Like, what's the next, you don't need to know your entire purpose for your entire life. It's too big or your business. What you need to know is, what's the next breadcrumb on my path? What's the next thing that's going to energize me, excite me? What am I curious about right now? Go pick up that one thing. Do that.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:29:46]:
Then what's the next breadcrumb? And I find when we can do that in our businesses, it becomes much more tangible and actionable.

Tina Tower [00:29:56]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:29:57]:
Yeah. Versus. I'm going to wait until I can see the whole playing field. You're probably never going to see it.

Tina Tower [00:30:04]:
So even if we do, I think, like, I was, I was someone in my twenties that I had, like, five year plans, ten year plans, and then I'd break them down into one year plans and 90 day action steps. Like, I was, you know, a little insane in terms of the way that I did that. But what I've learned as I've gotten older, through each of the decades, is going, you don't know what beautiful things lie awake. And if I stuck too tight to my plan, I missed, like, all of the incredibleness that was going to unfold. So I hold everything a lot looser now. And exactly like you say, like, I think that's beautiful advice in going, like, follow your curiosity, follow your passion, and then, then the purpose does unfold, which is, like, the best feeling ever when you get that.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:30:46]:
Yes. And it, like, we don't just have one purpose, you know, it's not just one thing, and it will change, you know, so, like, hold it lightly. I always like to have a directional vision, but be open to the magic of the moments and the opportunities. And, like, where is this going to go? Yeah, I find that that's a much more graceful way to navigate.

Tina Tower [00:31:11]:
Yeah, I love that.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:31:13]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:31:13]:
So you're super academic, which I find really interesting because a lot of successful business people are not. You've got two master's degrees. And I read that you're going back for your PhD as well.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:31:26]:
Yeah, I'm just about to start.

Tina Tower [00:31:28]:
My gosh. Okay, so I need to ask you about that. What role does academic research play in your approach to leadership and empowerment? And can you share any surprising findings from the research that you've done and why you're going again?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:31:44]:
Yeah. So, like, people think I'm. People who don't know me think I'm nuts. People who know me go, of course. Right.

Tina Tower [00:31:49]:
So it's.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:31:50]:
So. It's so interesting. I'm a learner. Like, I'm like, if you go and do your via strengths, your values in action strengths survey, which talks about, you know, what you like, doing, what you're good at, what. What are you, when are you at your best? One of my top strengths is love of learning. It's always. It wasn't who I was at school. I hated school.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:32:11]:
I tried to get kicked out of school. I just was a rebel, you know, in high school. Yeah, we could do a whole podcast on that. But then when I found the thing that I loved, I've always been, give me more of that, but with a purpose and intention to it. So, you know, I've done two master's degrees, another sort of NYU, it's called the inner MBA. So it's not a master's degree, but it's a program. But I've also done the holistic side. So I've done ten years of yoga, different teacher training, meditation, teacher training.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:32:52]:
I'm very much into the science of Vedanta and the Veda in India. So there's a lot of. There's the other side of it as well. For me, the way that I teach in my work is this. I call it this blend of science, spirit and experience. So I have the underpinning. So if you look at the women rising journey, it's all underpinned by science and research. But you wouldn't know that being a participant.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:33:18]:
But it just. It's a fund, you know, it's a fundamental thread in what I teach. In that aspect of my work. I think it's important to look at the research, look at the data, look at the science, look at the practices that are proven and tested, and then weave that through this holistic, you know, sort of spirit based and experience based work. And that's one of the reasons why the model works so well.

Tina Tower [00:33:46]:
It makes you very unique as well that you like both those sides. Yes.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:33:51]:
Yes. And it is very particularly in my space that I'm in around professional women. It is absolutely a key differentiator, because there's very few people who have that blend. Yeah, totally. So that, as a business owner, of course, is as an entrepreneur, is a beautiful thing, and it's what lights me up. Like, I'm a researcher. Like, I love getting into the data, but then I love overlaying that with, well, what is ancient? What are ancient teachings tell us about this. What do I see from the 10,000 women I've coached in the last three years? Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:34:28]:
How do we weave all of that into one beautiful, unique offering?

Tina Tower [00:34:32]:
So what's the curiosity thread that's got you into wanting to do your PhD? Because it's not a small undertaking, especially when you're building a business, launching a book, like, you've got enough on your plate that there's got to be something there that you want to find.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:34:47]:
Yeah, it's really interesting because I started my PhD ten years ago. Was it ten years ago? Yeah, probably eight to ten years ago. I started a PhD program because I'd done my two master's degrees. I'm like, well, this is the next step. And then I stopped. And if anyone's read simple, soulful, sacred, there's a chapter in there that, you know, the PhD that I didn't need because it was the wrong PhD at the wrong time. In my business, the wrong. Everything was wrong about it, and my.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:35:17]:
It was in the US. My supervisor at the time said to me, Megan, you don't need this. You don't need this. You're already this global thought leader. You just want to write books. And I did, and I've written three books since I started that PhD. But now the PhD program that I'm doing is like a full circle moment, because it's a PhD in the US on women's spirituality and leadership. It's like a very unique, highly coveted program, and it brings everything that I do together.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:35:50]:
So it brings all of the women's spirituality into it, all of the teachings, and it also brings in the aspect of leadership and creating social change. So, for me, right now, it's one of the things I'm most excited about. And I think you get that hit when you know that it's right. Like, it took me five months to get accepted. It's really hard to get into. They only take 15 people. But I just. My grit, you know, of just going through that program, and I just.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:36:23]:
The classes are at 03:00 a.m. my time. None of it matters, right? None of it matters because I'm so lit up that this is the next breadcrumb for me, and I'm so excited about it.

Tina Tower [00:36:36]:
There's nothing that could get me up for a 03:00 a.m. class.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:36:39]:
Well, for me either. Right? Like, sleep is my goal to everything, but that's how important this is. How long.

Tina Tower [00:36:49]:
How long will it take you to complete?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:36:52]:
Look, they say four to seven years. I tend to do things fast. I'm a. Yeah. Like, you know, I like to, you know, get things done. So I'm estimating five.

Tina Tower [00:37:06]:
Wow.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:37:07]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:37:07]:
Such a commitment. Good on you.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:37:09]:
Yeah. But I think we get. I think we get deterred by the commitment. It's like, oh, I want to write a book, but, oh, am I really going to give up a year of my life to book? But we know that we really want to do it, but we're not willing to step into that.

Tina Tower [00:37:27]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:37:27]:
It's the same with this, you know, it's. If you want to do it, time's going to pass anyway.

Tina Tower [00:37:33]:
Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:37:34]:
So who cares? Like, go do the thing you want to do. Yeah, go do it now.

Tina Tower [00:37:38]:
Yeah, yeah, completely. Okay, so you just mentioned writing a book and doing that, which, before we hit record, you showed me, like, like, the final type setting of the big, big chunk, a chunk of the books with all the post it notes and all the underlines and everything in there, which to me, when I had my books written, like, that was one of the most exciting parts. It's like, after that and it went off, it kind of felt like I'd almost done my job. Like, yes, you've got to market the bejesus out of it, but it's like you've given it all you've got kind of thing, and you've been working so hard when no one's watching to this point, and it's such a momentous moment and achievement. And I shared with you, like, I think, the hardest personal development exercise I have ever done in my life, and you've done it four times. So do you love the writing process? Do you find it stressful? Because a lot of women that are listening to this, I know, have aspirations to write a book one day.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:38:33]:
Yes. Look, I mean, it's. It's no joke writing a book, right? Yeah, there's books, and then there's books, you know, like little books, and there's books that's like a stream of consciousness, you know, writing exercise. And then there's, you know, research based books and, like, there's books and then there's books, but the process is the same. You got to sit your ass in your chair and look at a blank screen and go, oh, what do I have to say? So, I love writing a book. I'm already thinking about, okay, the next one. When am I going to start? Because I want to take time, you know, to do it can be stressful, super challenging. You have to be really disciplined, particularly running a business and writing a book.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:39:24]:
Like, we're in scale up mode. We're in. You know, I won't even tell you, like, there's so many pieces that. That go on in my business, which I'm sure there are in yours, and everyone's listening, but the. Those moments when you just go, yes. Like, I've just articulated a concept that I've been thinking about for ten years, and I've written it down and I've sent it to someone, and they've gone, oh, my God. Like, there is. Just, for me, there's nothing better than that.

Tina Tower [00:40:00]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:40:01]:
So I love the process of it. This was the hardest book that I've written hands down. Because of the nature of it.

Tina Tower [00:40:09]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:40:09]:
Because I've been trying to articulate, certainly in the first part of the book, when I'm talking about power and patriarchy and the paradoxes, I've written about things in a way that I've been trying to figure out and articulate for 15 years. And all the research and all of the teaching that I do, all of the conversations that I have and just crafted in, hopefully, in such a way that women are just going to go, oh, my God, I could get it now, you know? So that's. And it's research. There's. You know, there's. There's evidence that. That. That flows through it.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:40:46]:
Um, so, yeah, it was challenging.

Tina Tower [00:40:48]:
Yeah. And what does your process look like? Are you. You are all in, like, shut the rest of the world off and just do it all in one hit, or are you at, like, couple hours a day for, like, how do you work it into your life?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:41:02]:
Yeah. Like, I didn't have the. I didn't have the luxury to go lock myself away. And for me, anyway, that's not my process. Like, my process isn't to carve out massive chunks of time and just go lock myself, you know, in a room, although there certainly were times of that. But for me, it was structuring my calendar that I could have, okay, Monday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday book days. And it didn't mean that I wasn't doing other things, particularly on the Friday and the Monday, like, I run a business, keep the business moving, but that those days were no meeting days and that there was structured writing time. Because Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, for my business is nuts.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:41:47]:
Like, it's just coaching and meetings and da da da da. So I wouldn't expect myself to do anything on the book on those days, which I also think is important. But then those other days, that's when I had.

Tina Tower [00:41:59]:
And so with hand, like, so many different pillars to your business and your life at the moment, what do your daily wellness habits look like? To not lose your mind with all of that?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:42:13]:
Yes, one of my goals in life, don't lose your.

Tina Tower [00:42:16]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a lot, you know, like, they're big things that you're working on and, and I love that. And so many of us are trying to do big things and, and thrive through the process.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:42:28]:
Yeah. So I, um, I get up early. I cultivated myself to be a morning person because what didn't used to be. So I would typically get up around six, sometimes earlier, but mostly 06:00. 630 is a nice time for me. I will always do something for myself in the morning. So, meditation, some yoga, go for a walk. If it's not freezing, I will swim in the ocean.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:42:53]:
But morning is my time and that is just non negotiable for me. So, yeah, so that's, that's my morning. And again, sometimes it's 90 minutes, sometimes it's ten minutes, but it's usually more than ten minutes. So sometimes it's 30 minutes, shall we say, that's my, that's my morning routine. I always like to make sure that I've got the things that will fuel me in terms of food, so that I've got the stuff for the healthy lunch, so I'm not grabbing something. And then I have end of day rituals as well. So whether that's another meditation, I might do a class with my teacher in our group virtually around Kriya yoga or, you know, mantra, yantra work, all the things that we study, a bit of yoga, some light reading, tea, bedtime. So, you know, bed sleep is my absolute number one non negotiable.

Tina Tower [00:43:51]:
Awesome. Okay, that's helpful because I'm like, how do you do all of the things? That's helpful?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:43:59]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:44:01]:
Okay, so my last question for you is, what advice would you give to female entrepreneurs who are more starting out? And, you know, they haven't got that, that level of confidence in knowing what to say yes to, what to say no to, and, and they're looking to rise and they've come out of either traditional business or corporate, and they're like, I'm ready to give this, this business game a red hot go. And you're at the beginning, like, you probably don't remember now, but when you're at the beginning, like, it's so free falling and the fear of getting visible and putting yourself out there for the first time in your own personal brand, like, what advice would you give to women that are. That are in that situation?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:44:42]:
There's a couple of things. I teach this model in our program called the career mastery curve. So the first thing to realize when you're in that phase is that you are at the bottom of the curve. It goes novice, experienced mastery, and you will absolutely have brought elements of mastery skills that you've developed and honed into this new venture. But in terms of being a business owner entrepreneur, you write down at the beginning. And when we recognize that and realize this is a very uncomfortable place to be and that this is where our grit and our focus kicks in, I think it eases that pressure a little bit. They're like, I'm expect I should feel like I don't know what I'm doing because I don't know what I'm doing.

Tina Tower [00:45:22]:
Yes.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:45:23]:
Right. And not have unrealistic expectations of yourself. I remember it very well. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, where's the money? Like, let's just get really practical. If you're starting a business, the first question or the second question that you need to ask is, where is the money coming in? And we make choices at the start of our business often that we will then start to filter out some of the things that we say yes to as we go on. And we've built a revenue stream. But, yeah, where's the money? How are you getting the money in the door? Because otherwise, you got a hobby, right? You don't have a business.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:46:07]:
The more that you can set yourself up in the way that you want to go forward, the better. So by that, I mean, what are your personal habits? How are you taking care of yourself? Where are your boundaries? What's non negotiable in terms of how you work? And then there's the secret magic sauce. Right? What feels purposeful? What am I called to do? Who am I called to serve? And how do I every day move in that direction so that we're not chasing all of the things, even though at the beginning I find that you will often. Yep, there will be more things because you got to build a business and a revenue stream and a client base and a brand and all of those things, and say yes to opportunities to put yourself out there.

Tina Tower [00:46:55]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:46:55]:
You know, I was on our advanced training group this morning, and one of the women were saying, I'm about to launch my website, but I can't. I haven't done it yet because I hate the welcome video that I've put up there. And every time I look at it, I hate it. It's terrible. And so I haven't launched my business. And I said to her on the call, this is our small group, 30 women. And I said, this week you're going to film it, you're going to post it, you're going to message us and tell us it's up.

Tina Tower [00:47:25]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:47:25]:
This week, by Friday. Like, do the things. Right.

Tina Tower [00:47:29]:
A shame. What stops us from putting it out there is always those little things. Did you ever struggle with visibility when you first came out of corporate, into your own business.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:47:40]:
In terms of me wanting to be visible or just.

Tina Tower [00:47:43]:
Well, you know, building a personal brand?

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:47:45]:
Yeah, of course. Absolutely. I mean, I went from a corporate executive role to being a coach.

Tina Tower [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:47:55]:
Right. I had just. You basically start from scratch.

Tina Tower [00:47:58]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:47:59]:
You have to re establish, rebuild your identity and your brand. And who am I? What am I doing? And, oh, my God, why would you go and leave that fabulous job, high.

Tina Tower [00:48:09]:
Profile job, which is such a fun thing to do, though. Like, I find it such a fun thing to do to go. All right. Like, it's like the closing of one chapter, the starting of anew. And you can. You can decide. Like, it's very freeing and empowering.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:48:24]:
I think it is. But I think we often don't. We often don't tap into that when we're in it, because it's like, let's be honest, it's really freaking hard to build a business. Very. It's very hard to start a business. It's very hard to scale a business.

Tina Tower [00:48:39]:
And, Megan, haven't you read Instagram? No, it's not. It's easy. It's so easy.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:48:45]:
And we look at Instagram, we think it's so easy. And it looks so glamorous, and it's just not that, you know, it's the.

Tina Tower [00:48:51]:
Thing, like, I rage about this all the time because I have. I have so many women come into my program to build their businesses, and then when it's hard, they think they're doing something wrong and that it's harder for them than everybody else. And I'm like, it's hard for everyone. Like, just no one. Apparently, it's. It's become uncool to say I work my ass off and it's really hard.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. And we have to know that going in.

Tina Tower [00:49:15]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:15]:
Which is why the work you do with business is so important. Right. We have to normalize.

Tina Tower [00:49:21]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:22]:
That's what it takes.

Tina Tower [00:49:24]:
Otherwise everyone would be up there, like, of course that's what it takes. There's a cost. Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:28]:
Yeah. And, and what is the cost? Like, what am I willing to sacrifice?

Tina Tower [00:49:33]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:33]:
And it doesn't have to be yourself, by the way.

Tina Tower [00:49:35]:
Definitely.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:36]:
Am I willing to sacrifice. How do I be discerning which with what I say yes to what I say no to which clients, which offerings? How do I double down on the things that are working? You know, like, if I hadn't doubled down on women rising and stopped doing five other things that were potentially really lucrative.

Tina Tower [00:49:59]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:49:59]:
There's no way I would have the movement that we now have. There's no way.

Tina Tower [00:50:03]:
Right. Which is always scary when you're cutting off something that's working.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:06]:
Yes. Yes. And I said I cut off everything else. Wow. After we've done that first round.

Tina Tower [00:50:11]:
All in, baby.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:13]:
Yeah. All in.

Tina Tower [00:50:14]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:15]:
Focus.

Tina Tower [00:50:16]:
Go.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:16]:
Scale.

Tina Tower [00:50:17]:
Yeah.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:18]:
And we did. And we are well done.

Tina Tower [00:50:20]:
Yeah. You. Round of applause for that one, because you're kicking ass. Like, you. You're doing so well. I am so excited for women rising to come out in August. I'll be getting a copy and sharing it with everybody and reading it as soon as it comes out and shouting it from the rooftops because it's, you know, knowing you and your work and what you've done, like, it's going to be exceptional. So I'm really excited for you.

Tina Tower [00:50:44]:
Congratulations.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:45]:
Thank you.

Tina Tower [00:50:46]:
Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Megan.

Megan Dalla-Camina [00:50:48]:
Thanks for having me.

Tina Tower [00:50:51]:
This episode was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, her empire builder. The best online education for female course creators in the world. Check it [email protected]. along with so many free resources to help you get building your empire and seeing those results that you deserve. If you loved this episode, please don't keep it a secret. Share it with a friend on social media and tag Meena Tower and give it a review. It really does help us to be able to bring you bigger and better content as we grow. Have the most beautiful day.

Tina Tower [00:51:28]:
I'm Tina Tower, and I'm cheering you on all the way.